RE: Anyone have problems with Damon crooked on frame?
Okay, if the coach frame is welded off center to the chassis frame, is the coach body also mounted off center on the chassis frame. I am trying to visualize openings in the coach body floor that are cut and fitted to fixtures which are attached to the frame, ie., fresh, black, and gray tanks, wiring harnesses, plumbing, front driver controls like the steering shaft, foot pedals, etc., etc.. The coach frame is usually welded to the vertical side of the frame rail rather than the flange, since the flange carries the stress point for the chassis.
It sounds to me that the chassis may not have been properly aligned when the coach frame was attached. Fleetwood had this same problem years ago and had to recall several hundred coaches.
I guess I am asking how you know that the coach frame and chassis frame are both straight?
Denny
You've got a straight chassis frame.
You've got a straight coach frame.
The problem is the coach frame wasn't welded on top of the chassis frame properly and angles from correct position at the rear to 1.5" inches off center at the front.
Correct so far?
I can't see any reason why the coach box can't be cut loose and re-welded on center to the frame.
RE: Anyone have problems with Damon crooked on frame?
While there is an opinion that there is no "loss of value," consider the automobile that has had extensive body and frame straightening done to it, then resold. There is always the issue of whether it has been in a wreck... well, IMHO, a crooked frame on a motorhome is no different. Rewelding can be identified by an inspector, especially at a dealership, and no dealer or customer would want to buy such a motorhome. Again, if the coach body is built on a crooked frame, then the coach body is likely stressed or crooked as well. Where do they stop with the "repairs?"
Denny
RE: Anyone have problems with Damon crooked on frame?
We are not discussing replacing a window cover or a few loose screws in this thread. If the frame is misaligned as it appears to be, and if they have to completely detach the coach body from the frame to realign the frame, it IS a major problem. It affects the handling characteristics of the coach, wear of drive train and tires, front alignment problems, and rewelding on frame rails that are not supposed to be welded on in the first place. The end result could be worse than living with the problem. If the coach was older, then perhaps the owner should give Damon a chance to repair. But if the coach is new, as it appears to be, then Damon should definitely repurchase the coach or replace it. The sad part is that "someone" at the plant knew the coach was misaligned, and approved it's shipment to the dealer anyway. Building a coach body on a misaligned chassis is not an easy thing to do, because nothing fits quite right. I am sure if the owners start examining the coach carefully, they will find where Damon had to literally "cut corners" to complete the build.
Denny
MANY posters on this forum have stated how happy they have been with the FACTORY fixes by Damon. I think these are the "experienced" people you are looking for and probably as close as you're going to get to your original request.
So...FWIW, I agree wholeheartedly with Stu, Hurricanner and the subsequent thoughtful posters: document before (which you have done), get it to the factory for the fix, then document again. It may be over at that point, or at least you will then be in a supported position to fight anew.
Good luck with Ivan. Prayers....
Sage
RE: Anyone have problems with Damon crooked on frame?
Damon is a Thor Industries owned coach company... they will try to repair it, but Thor is spending twice or more this year on warranty repairs than they budgeted for, so expect to hit the wall on quality warranty work.
Denny
RE: Gulfstream conquest 6319dk VS the Fourwinds Kodiak 34H
On my Dutchmen 33k, the UVW is 17,000#, the CCC is 1364#. On the 34H, I believe the CCC is around 860#... maybe someone that owns one can check for us. I can not understand how they add bunks so the coach can sleep more people, then expect you to carry less of everything to accomodate the lower CCC. If the tires blow, they blame the problem on defective tires.
It appears Four Winds continues to make most of their models on the 19,500# chassis. As Ron mentioned, the MH chassis go out to 239 W?B, but my thoughts were since Four Winds shows the 259", and there is a cutaway with that W/B, perhaps they were putting the new coach on the commercial chassis. I have asked for details from Four Winds, but no answer yet.
I apologize for my argumentative nature... in recent years I have confronted both Thor Industries and Fleetwood on issues of safety involving their motorhomes. The concerns were valid, but only when confronted with the facts and with the support of several hundred other owners, did Fleetwood respond. Thor Industries espouse quality and customer concern, and I know the efforts of a few will eventually reward many, not only with safer and better quality RV's, but also with increased profits for those companies that respond to the consumer's needs.
Sadly, some of the companies that produced the better quality RV's are the ones that succumbed early to the loss of revenues. I have never found an unhappy National RV owner, and I know several Alfa owners that love their coaches. The ones that stay in business do so because they have a better margin of profit, such as Thor Industries, and until this year, Mr. Thompson, CEO, has bragged that they have NEVER had a year without a profit.
Morrigan will do what he feels best doing..and he should. It is his money and his life. I certainly did, as most of us. It REALLY IS a gamble when you buy a coach, and you have no control over what happens AFTER the money is handled over to the dealer. Your ONLY recourse are forums like this one, and hopefully RV.Net will remain neutral. It is really the "last frontier" for the RV'er.
Denny
IMHO, the 19,500 lb Kodiak Class 5 chassis is simply NOT enough chassis to carry any model of RV, and most of the builders recognize this fact. four winds IS coming out with what appears to be a class 6 chassis with 30,000 lb GCWR, which holds some promise.
Denny
And the E350/E450 is OK? Lots of RV's built on these.
I think the problem is that the manufacturers try and build too big of coach on the chassis they have.
I feel the 19.5 K is fine for the smaller Super C's. In my case, mine is 15.4 UVW.
But, that is just IMHO.
RE: Gulfstream conquest 6319dk VS the Fourwinds Kodiak 34H
Morrigan,
Actually, for what you want to do, that is exactly what I am suggesting...I have owned 4 motorhomes, one class A gasser, two diesel pushers, and now this hunk a junk Four Winds call a Super C... except for the gasser, they have all cost me over $100,000 each, and two of them have fallen apart going down the highway.... as far as the other Class C chassis, it is fairly common knowledge that most of them are going down the highway grossly overloaded, and are accidents waiting to happen. If I put the 1300 lbs in my coach the label says I can put into it, the drivers side rear axle is 300# overloaded. If my wife wants to take a poop going down the highway, we run the risk of breaking an axle... and that is a fact!
Fleetwood had to "recall" 56 Tiogas and Jamborees a few months ago because the front axle would overload when the driver got behind the wheel... with NO passengers or cargo! Guess what the "fix" was... add 800# to the rear bumper!! While they did buy back the ones that had been sold, they were able to sell most of the "fixed" coaches to one company that rented Class C's to the public...believe it or not! I asked fleetwood why they had the problem. It was because the wheelbase was too long, and much of the load transferred to the front axle. On my coach, the wheelbase is too short, and most of the load transfers to or behind the rear axle; when I hit a road bump, the front axle unloads like a teeter totter.
Denny
RE: Gulfstream conquest 6319dk VS the Fourwinds Kodiak 34H
The link comparing the coaches is in error. The Kodiak C5500 class 5 has a 19500 lb chssis, with 7000 lbs front axle and 13,500 lbs rear axle. The exhaust brake is an important feature, and I thought it was a part of the transmission, so I don't understand why the 2500 allison doesn't have it.
IMHO, the 19,500 lb Kodiak Class 5 chassis is simply NOT enough chassis to carry any model of RV, and most of the builders recognize this fact. four winds IS coming out with what appears to be a class 6 chassis with 30,000 lb GCWR, which holds some promise.
Is anyone familiar with the "EZ Ride" suspension Four winds is using on their new coach?
Denny
Fuse for steps on 2007 Dutchmen Super C
My steps quit working after my coach came back from Four Winds for warranty repairs. One of the fuse slots under the bed is labelled for the step, but there is no fuse in the slot and after removing the fuse block, there is no wire going to that fuse slot.
I jumped the hot wire for the porch lite to the step and it works, while the hot wire for the step has no current, so I am certain it is a fuse problem, if I could only find the fuse.
any help would be appreciated.
Denny M
RE: Rusty new 2007 Four Winds Hurricanes
I could probably live with the rust, especially if it was caused by that. However, if they were sitting in water and it has affected the differentail, etc. then that really concerns me.
I think we will all be very interested in learning if there was water in the rear differential like the one in New Jersey. I am not sure the rear differential can fill with water without being flooded at least to where the vent allows water into the case. My guess is that since the differential fluid will float, as the water fills the differential, the fluid will escape. Obviously, I couldn't check the differential on the one I found in California. Comments from the others would help as well.
Denny
RE: Rusty new 2007 Four Winds Hurricanes
I doubt that any of these chassis's are driven from the plants to Four Winds... I suspect they are transported on railcars.
denny
Responding to the initial "Rust" issue.......
I understand that rust on an RV chassis if the chassis was driven from the Ford or GM factory in Detroit MI, in winter under heavy salt spray road conditions, then parked for months on a dirt lot in a high humid environment. It really doesn't take much for rust like that to form on metal that is not adequately treated. Salt crystals sitting on metal will eat away that metal in high humid conditions indefinitely, until something comes along and rinses it off. Driving your coach in a heavy rain storm will do a lot of good in rinsing off salt crystals.
It is for those reasons, I hope never to drive my RV under those conditions. If I'm forced to, I plan to power-wash the entire under-belly as soon as reasonably possible.
RE: Rusty new 2007 Four Winds Hurricanes
Hello Again...
Well, you found my thread on the same topic....if you check out RVFactor, you may learn a bit about the problem...
denny
RE: Narrow Wheel Base
When you refer to wheelbase to rear overhang ratio, what is considered acceptable? I have a 213" wheelbase, with 148" from my rear axle to the rear of the coach. Where can I get more information on this? Four Winds state that I have no problem with those numbers.
Denny
RE: National Recall on Jayco Seneca Super C to be announced
The response you received from Jayco does not surprise me in the least. I like our 35GS and plan to keep it for a long time... but our next motorhome will not be a Jayco. I wouldn't take another product from them if they tried to give it to me.
The RV manufacturers get by with this attitude because they have learned that the "average" RV consumer is much less aggressive than the general population when it comes to resolving quality issues with their products. And they are right. The reason for this "attitude" is that the typical owner thinks that bringing negative issues to the forefront will devalue their product. Over the past year I have addressed issues with my RV that have drawn criticizm from my own ranks. The industry monitors sites such as this one, and the way they respond to these concerns are dictated by what they read on these threads.
Jayco, Four Winds, or others should be responsive to our needs, and we think the best way to achieve this goal is to try a logical approach to handling issues such as these. But logic does not always work. The originator of this thread is to be praised for bringing this matter to other Jayco owners' attention; anyone who exposes the industry to their own misdeeds should be praised, and NOT criticized, by their own ranks.
Denny
RE: Options for 'heavy' towing?
craig,
Your rear axle is probably 13,500 lbs, but the GVWR is still 19,500...the front should be 7,000 lbs, and that is where the problem can be with the Super C Kodiaks. The extra CCC is on the front axle where you can't load anything...
Denny
13,325 on the rear axle and 5255 on the front axle. I am going to put a bit more tension on my load distributing hitch and make sure the car is all the way back in the trailer. That should get the rear axle weight back under the axles rated 13,000lb. I have no issues towing with it it is the gas 8.1L it could use a bit more power but its not bad just thirsty. I usually hang right with traffic no problem 75mph or so on the highway.
Craig
RE: Options for 'heavy' towing?
I tow flat, but Time-to-go-now is right. I have a GVWR of 19,500 lbs, and a GCVR of 26,000 lbs; even though I have a 10,000 lb tow hitch, the most I can tow is 6500 lbs. It seems that the manufacturers sell what they "think" the buyer wants, not what the vehicle can legally handle.
Because of the short wheelbase and extended overhang, the slightest movement in the steering is exaggerated at the hitch which transfers to the toad. since there are leaf springs on all four corners, the springs also will roll side to side allowing lateral movement of the chassis and body all while moving in a forward direction. The side to side movement of the chassis causes the steering control arm to shift laterally moving the front steering components without a related movement of the steering wheel. A real circus...
Denny
Howdy,
How are you towing the Tahoe? Flat tow? Dolly? Regular trailer?
It's not good news to hear that towing with that setup is a nightmare... :-/ What's it do when you tow?
Mark
RE: tow vehicle
I tow a 2006 Tahoe with my 2007 Four Winds Super C (model 33K), but the wheelbase is too short (213.5 inches). I suggest you find an RV with as long a wheelbase as possible which can also give you a shorter rear overhang. This will keep your coach from side slipping (tail wagging the dog) when going down the highway. Keep in mind the tow bar weight (mine is about 80 lbs. should be included in the overall CCC in the coach.
I am considering a Super C to replace 5th wheel toy hualer. Would like to use 1/2 ton pickup as a two vehicle to accommodate motorcycle. Any suggestions which 1/ ton can be used with 4 wheels down.
Just about any 4WD (not AWD) vehicle can be towed. You will need to check owners manual to see which models can be towed. I know one person that is towing a Tahoe with his Super C. That comparison should get you into just about any 1/2 ton GM truck.
RE: Options for 'heavy' towing?
You want as long a wheelbase as you can find. A short wheelbase with a long rear overhang will cause your front end to porpoise (bounce up and down) when you are towing anything like you describe, and steering control becomes difficult. Also, watch the cargo carrying capacity (CCC). Be sure you have included the tongue weight of your trailer in the CCC as well as anything you add or the dealer has added to the unit.
I own the Four Winds 33K with the 213.5" wheelbase and 33' overall length, and towing my 5000# Chevy Tahoe is a nightmare.
As is mentioned, the wheelbase and CCC issues have been discussed in other threads in this forum. Good luck.
Denny
Howdy,
Thanks for the response...
Where can I get that detailed level of specification? I have yet to see anyone spec out a "full of fuel & water, empty grey/black" weight or even just a dry tank weight.
Looking around some more, would something like a Four Winds Kodiak 32B (I think its called...) probably tend to be the lightest option? Single slide, about 33' long.
http://www.fourwinds-rv.com/products-xc.html#
Glancing through specs, it seems like you can get a short wheelbase Kodiac (213.5") or longer wheelbase (239"), but both have the same GCWR and GVWR. In that case, would I be better off with the shorter wheelbase?
I'd love to find something that would specify the rear axle overhang as well. :-/
Appreicate any help with finding these types of specs, or any other advice/pointers!
Mark
RE: Crashing your RV or rather, DON"T!!!
I have so much stuff in my RV-I just give every joker on the road way more stopping room than needed --- no FED crash test or nanny gov't official will be there to save my life when the need arises!
Wow! No further comment needed here!
RE: Gulfstream customer service
Sounds from 1peabody's "praise" of the dealer and Gulfstream that they repurchased the unit, possibly because of some issues when it was sold originally. I'm happy for 1peabody, his bringing this matter to our attention, and the final resolution of his matter, whatever that may have been.
The fact remains that the RV Manufacturers have no concept of safety nor quality control of their products, and it is time for stronger federal legislation (boy, won't THAT get a response!!) since most owners are reluctant to criticize their coach builder for fear of ????.
If the RV industry would find "unity" in the RV community rather than disgust and criticism when one of their own is critical of the industry, they WOULD build a better and safer product.
Denny
RE: Weight Distribution on Fleetwood Jamborees and Tiogas
I found the letter to NHTSA from Fleetwood describing how they descovered the defect and what Fleetwood planned to do to correct the defect... ie, heavier bumper. Ironically, a Fleetwood customer discovered the weight distribution problem and brought it to Fleetwood's attention. Fleetwood was complying with requirements set forth by NHTSA in reporting the problem, but I think NHTSA should have questioned the resolution factor. Here is the link to the letter...
Fleetwood Letter
Denny
